The Joy and Pain of Sharing Experiences

Episode 66 of the Secular Buddhism Podcast

Hello. You are listening to the Secular Buddhism podcast, and this is episode number 66. I'm your host, Noah Rasheta. Today I'm talking about the joy and pain of sharing experiences. So let's get started.

Welcome Back

I recently returned from a two-week trip to Uganda, Africa. I'd announced that trip before here on the podcast, on the website, and on the Facebook page. It was an incredible trip—even better than last year, actually. There were new experiences and connections that were made that were really meaningful.

I had the opportunity to start the trip out by doing a gorilla trek with Suzy, who coordinates these trips, and a few other people. It was a really neat experience spending time sitting on the side of a mountain surrounded by gorillas. The family we were trekking had 19 members in it. Just sitting there quietly, peacefully on the mountainside watching them, taking pictures, seeing them do what they do—that was really a special moment. I think that kind of set the tone for the rest of the trip.

I'm glad to be back. The week leading up to the Africa trip involved a lot of preparation work and packing, which made it difficult to record any podcast episodes. Then, of course, the two weeks I was gone, I was pretty much out of commission with no internet or very little technology in general. When I came home, it took about a week to adapt. Last week was my first full week back, and it took several days to adjust to the time zone. But I finally feel like I'm back to normal—with the exception of daylight saving time throwing a little wrench in there. Things feel pretty much back to normal now, and I'm excited to get back on track with recording podcast episodes.

I should also mention that I've had the book I'm writing taking up a lot of my time. I'll talk more about that in another episode. But needless to say, I'm several weeks behind on my weekly podcast schedule. I'm glad to be back, and I hope you enjoy the episode I've prepared for today.

The Joy and Pain of Sharing

What I want to talk about is this concept of the joy and pain of sharing experiences. It's something I first thought about while I was in Africa. I've considered this before, but when you're in a really scenic place like Africa with your camera snapping away at pictures, you can't help but wonder in some of those moments: "What am I valuing more—the experience I'm having, or the capturing of the experience so that I can relive it later, or post it on social media to see what other people think about what I just captured?"

This got me thinking about the joy and the pain when we share experiences.

Now, taking a picture is no big deal, but I'm pretty sure all of you have experienced this: you're doing something, you see something, and one of your first thoughts is, "Oh, I need to take a picture of that," because you want others to experience what you're experiencing. If you're like me, you may have even felt that if you didn't have your camera with you, the experience you're having would be diminished because you weren't going to be able to share it.

I wanted to connect this with the concept of the foundations of mindfulness. As some of you may know from past episodes, the foundations of mindfulness help us understand that there are layers of experience. There's what you're experiencing, and then there's the experience you're having around the experience you're having. This can be quite complex—multiple layers stacked together.

Understanding the Layers

For example, let's say we go to a movie and we enjoy watching it. That's one experience—the first layer. But then we want others to watch that movie too. You call your siblings or friends and say, "You've got to go watch that movie." There's a second experience here—the experience of sharing the first experience.

You probably know what it feels like when someone says, "Oh, wow. Yes, I loved that movie. Thank you for recommending it." Now you're adding to the joy. You had the first experience that was pleasant, and now you have a second experience that's also pleasant because somebody else enjoyed what you shared with them.

But the flip side can also happen. Someone can say, "Oh, I didn't like that movie." What's interesting is that now you're experiencing pain on the second level, right? The movie experience itself was pleasant, but now I'm feeling a little upset because my brother didn't like it when I thought he would. I can't believe he didn't like it. What's wrong with him? So now you're allowing the feeling of the second layer of experience to affect the first layer.

If we're not careful, we blend all of this into one overall experience. Through the foundations of mindfulness, what we want to do ideally is keep these layers separate. Allow yourself to enjoy the thing you're enjoying, and then, sure, if we're lucky, we get to enjoy the sharing of the experience as well. But if it's not well received, we don't have to allow the pain of the second layer to affect the first.

When It Gets More Complex

Now, with a movie, that's not a big deal—at least I hope it's not. Maybe for some people it is. I actually do know some people who make a very big deal about their recommendations, and if you don't like their recommendation, they're upset. But with movies or restaurant recommendations, it's not such a big deal.

What I want to highlight is where this gets really complex: the touchy subjects. Political views, religious beliefs, ideological stances, philosophical viewpoints—these are where things become much more layered and sensitive.

I'm sure you've noticed that when somebody has a spiritual experience—where they discover that a certain ideology, religion, or religious view really speaks to them—they adhere to it and follow it. They're experiencing the joy of that first layer. But then immediately comes the sharing. "Hey, you've got to come listen to this. I believe this now, and I want you to believe this too, because this makes me happy and I wasn't happy before I had this belief. Therefore, you must not be happy unless you also share in this belief."

Now we're on that second layer. Maybe someone will say, "No, that doesn't interest me," or it could get more complicated: "No, that's stupid. Why would you believe that? That's false. Get away from that. That's a cult." Now you're experiencing the shame of sharing the experience of what was bringing you joy. By not separating the two, the pain of the second level can drastically affect the joy of the first level.

I see this all the time, especially with religious and ideological views. Somebody will feel the joy of their belief system, and then they feel tremendous suffering because you don't share in that with them. It's unfortunate that the pain of the second layer is affecting their first layer—their direct experience with their own belief or their own idea.

The Reverse Situation

I'm sure you've seen this, and I'm sure you've experienced it. If you're listening to this podcast, it's possible that you're not connected to a religion anymore. I know a lot of podcast listeners are in that situation. We have the tendency to do the same thing. It's like, "Well, I used to believe this. Now I don't. I've found this new way of thinking, this open-mindedness, this liberation from that belief feels really good."

So there we are experiencing the first layer. Then we want to share that with others. We go to someone who doesn't have our view—or maybe they still have our old view, our old belief—and we're like, "Hey, just so you know, I left that belief. I left that view, and now I'm here, and now I'm happy. Therefore, you must not be very happy where you are because you can't possibly know what it feels like to be happy like I am experiencing."

They reject it and say, "No, that doesn't call to me. I'm very happy with my belief," or something along those lines. Now we're in the same boat, just backwards. We're sharing something that's very meaningful for us. But at the second level—the sharing portion—it's affecting us because now we feel offended that they don't want to listen, that they don't want to consider our view, or that they'll invalidate it by saying, "No, your view is wrong because my view is right." Then we experience suffering or pain.

What I want to highlight is this: in those moments, you can pause and recognize something important. The pain or suffering you're experiencing in that moment—the rejection of the sharing of your experience—it's a rejection of the sharing, not a rejection of your experience itself.

Your experience of whatever is your belief, your non-belief, your political opinion, whatever that thing is that makes you feel a certain way—that's you. That's all yours. Nobody else can take that from you. But the moment you want to share that with someone, you'll experience an additional joy if they share in it with you. And you'll experience a new form of pain or discontent when they don't want to share it with you.

But here's the key: you don't have to allow that to affect your initial experience. That's the real learning here.

A Profound Insight

While we were in Africa, we would get together in the mornings and do meditation sessions and mindfulness classes where we'd discuss different topics. One of the things I really enjoyed about this group is that we had a lot of people who were experienced in the topic of mindfulness and had wonderful ideas to contribute to our discussions.

One of the days when we were talking, one of the girls on the trip with us—Pamela—became a really good friend of mine. You know how sometimes you meet people and your personalities just mesh? She has a sense of humor that really works well with mine. A lot of people listening to this podcast may not know that I have a pretty dry sense of humor because it doesn't really come across in the podcast. I don't spend much time joking here. But meeting with podcast listeners on a trip like this and getting to know each other much more intimately over the course of two weeks—that's something Pamela pointed out to me. She said, "Wow, it's really fun to hear your sense of humor and bounce jokes back and forth with each other." She's a writer with a very witty sense of humor.

But long story short—Pamela, if you're listening to this: thank you so much for coming on the trip. I want everyone to hear the profound teaching you shared with us in Africa.

We were talking about this exact concept I just described. Pamela mentioned something that really stood out to me. When people share something meaningful to them—their opinion, their belief, their ideas—and she disagrees with that experience, she does something really clever. She reminds herself that she loves things, too.

Think about that. If somebody's sharing with her, "You know what? I really love this new way of thinking. I've switched to this political ideology, or this new religion, or I left this religion and found this open, secular way of life"—whatever is meaningful to them in their experience—if it doesn't resonate with her or she doesn't understand it because she's not in their shoes, she can always empathize by expressing that she loves things, too.

I thought that was such a clever and profound way to navigate these moments. If someone's complaining to you—whether about politics, religion, or any sensitive topic—you can allow them to vent. Even if you don't agree, you can acknowledge, "You know, I hate things too. There are ideas I really dislike. I know what that's like." That's a way of validating their sharing, their experience.

Now, this isn't about endorsing people's ideas, views, or beliefs. This is not about that at all. This is about having empathy and recognizing that I know what it's like to be passionate about something too. It may not be the same thing. I may disagree completely with you. But what was so clever and brilliant about Pamela's suggestion is this: you can say, "I love things too," or, "I hate things too."

That kind of became one of the little inside jokes for the rest of our trip. If somebody in our group was having an experience they weren't enjoying and somebody else was fine with it, they'd say, "Well, I hate things too." Or if the opposite was true, "I love things too." It was a reminder to ourselves throughout the trip that we don't have to agree on anything. But we all know what it's like to love things and to hate things, to agree with things and to disagree with things. We were expressing that understanding through that simple phrase.

I thought it was a really fun and clever thing to share, so thank you, Pamela, if you're listening.

Putting It Together

What I want to highlight is this: the pain of the second layer will often ruin the joy of the first layer if we allow it. But the first layer of experience is very personal.

As you go through life and experience things, you develop ideas, get rid of beliefs, or acquire new ones. You do this because you're having personal experiences, thoughts, emotions, and feelings. These things are yours. They're completely yours.

The tendency to want to share them is very natural. It's a very human thing for us to want to share with each other. But just because somebody wants to share something with you doesn't mean you have to accept or buy into their experience. It's just their experience.

I think about this—just today we had some Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on our door. They were visiting our upstairs neighbors, but I had this thought: "Whatever they're sharing, whatever they're passionate about, I may not agree with it at all. But I could say, 'I'm passionate about things too.'" If they expressed their pitch and I genuinely considered it, I could respond and say, "You know, I'm passionate about things too. Thank you for sharing that." Just something to think about.

Especially with people we care about, I think this can be a really interesting way of looking at things. Recognizing that on one level, at one layer, I am experiencing life my way. Having certain beliefs makes me feel a certain way. I know this because there was a time in my life when my beliefs made me feel a certain, very comforting way. Then there was a phase where those beliefs were causing discomfort and I didn't want to feel that anymore. Then there was a phase where I didn't have those beliefs anymore—they went away. And then I was experiencing comfort around the uncertainty of not knowing.

At every stage, there's always in the back of your mind that inclination to share with others: "Hey, I want you to know how I feel." This is the same drive that says, "Hey, I need to take a picture of my meal and post it on Instagram so you can see what I'm experiencing." It's so hardwired, so ingrained in us to want to share our experience with others.

It's no wonder that when we share our experiences, it can become a volatile thing. Any of you who are on social media know this. You can share anything on Facebook—a puppy rescuing a baby kitten—and you're going to have controversy in the comments. There's no way around it. You can share whatever is meaningful to you—a philosophy, a religious view, a political opinion, whatever—and you're going to have people who do not agree with it at all. People who are going to be angry that you hold those views or that you don't hold those views.

This can be aggravated the closer we are to the people we're wanting to share with. Wanting to share my experience with my brothers is one thing. Wanting to share an experience with a coworker is another. Friends, family, colleagues—everyone in between. We get more and more sensitive about the reception of what we're sharing when it's people closest to us. At least, that's what it seems like to me.

When I share something with someone close to me, I expect that they'll take from the sharing the same thing that I took from the original experience. In other words, I'm expecting that from layer two that they're going to extract what I got out of layer one. And that's never going to happen. It's just impossible.

Keeping this in mind and tying it in with the teaching of the four foundations of mindfulness, we can keep these layers separate. Whatever experience you're having—that's one thing. Don't allow the sharing of the experience to alter the experience itself. If you took joy from an experience, then you took joy from it. If you didn't, then you didn't. So what? But when you share and somebody is disgusted that you didn't take joy from that experience, and now it makes you go back and question your own experience—why do that? You already had the experience.

This way of thinking allows us to keep these layers separate. We can experience joy on one layer. If I'm going to experience joy or pain on the second layer when I try to share the experience, so be it. But that's a whole new layer. I won't allow the suffering of the second layer to take away from the joy of the first layer.

A Helpful Reminder

The expression to keep in mind—the one I think is really helpful—is: "I love things, too," or, "I don't like things either," or, "I hate things, too," or, "Things are gross for me, too," or anything along those lines. You get the spirit of that phrase. I think it's ingenious.

That's what I wanted to share with you today.

Closing Announcements

It's really good to be back on schedule trying to get podcast episodes out. I have a whole list of topics I want to cover, and I'm going to try to get them all out. For now, my goal is to release an episode every Monday. At least for the next little while, I hope to be consistent with that.

I also have several things in the works that I'm excited to announce. I'm not going to give you all the details right now, but I do have another trip in the works that's going to be epic and incredible. It won't happen until the middle to late of next year, 2019, but I'll give you the details as soon as I have the dates finalized. I've got some fun announcements around the book I'm writing. I've also got announcements around the online workshop I'm still working on—something I eventually plan to have available to anyone to take at any time, at their own pace, and for free. There are a few other little announcements that I'll mention when the time is right.

Sharing This Episode

If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please consider sharing it with others. Oh, there we go—sharing! Keep in mind what you get out of this podcast. That's the first layer, right? That's on you. Then when you share it with others, let's say you try to share it with someone and they're like, "That's stupid. Why would I listen to something about Buddhism?" Notice how it makes you feel, and recognize that doesn't take away from the joy you experienced from listening to it.

Backwards, maybe they'll say, "Oh, that's great," or they'll come back and say, "Hey, that was awesome. I love listening to this podcast. It's changed my life. Thank you. You were a direct contributor to that." You'll notice how the joy is being compounded there: first, your joy of listening to the podcast, and second, your joy of sharing it and that being well received. But those are two different things. You can notice that difference.

I do mention please share it with others, so consider writing a review or giving it a rating in iTunes. If you want to join the online community, right now we have the Facebook group—the Secular Buddhism Facebook Group—and the Secular Buddhism Podcast Community, which is a Facebook group that's a little bit more specific to discussing topics around the podcast rather than secular Buddhism in general.

I was running the Online Weekly Sangha, but I've paused that for now. Mostly because I'm still feeling quite behind trying to get a lot of the projects I have going. I have to put that on hold until I can get the book out and several other things done. That's paused for now.

If you want to make a donation to support the work I'm doing with the podcast, you can visit SecularBuddhism.com and click the donate button. That's all I have for now.

I look forward to recording another podcast episode soon. I'm glad to be back with you guys, and until next time.

For more about the Secular Buddhism podcast and Noah Rasheta's work, visit SecularBuddhism.com